December 10
1897 The hearing of Isaac Olliver jr on the charge of committing an abominable “Crime Against Nature” was concluded before Justice McMaster yesterday. The charge was wholly unsubstantiated and the defendant was discharged. Salt Lake Herald
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| Henry Gerber |
1929 Flames Kill
Nine As Movie Studio Becomes Inferno About 75 persons Were On Sound Stage,
Dancers Were In Costume and Orchestra About to Strike UP Overture when Flash of
Fire turns Gay scene Into Grim Tragedy. Cause Undetermined (New York) One of
the bodies was that of a female impersonator. His body was little burned and he
apparently died of suffocation. The flowing dresses, vividly colored cheeks,
made an incongruous picture as firemen carried the body to as waiting
ambulance. Ogden Standard Examiner.
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| Patrick White |
1973-The Nobel
Prize for Literature was awarded to gay novelist Patrick White.
1980-Dan White, who
was serving time for the murder of San Francisco mayor George Moscone and
openly gay city supervisor Harvey Milk, requested a 16-month reduction in
sentence due to a technicality. It was denied.
1981 A Boston paper
wrote “A mysterious new syndrome that turns usually harmless viruses and
bacteria into killers has become a public health hazard primarily among
homosexual men. Three New studies published Wednesday’
1981- R.N. Bobbie
Campbell became the first person with AIDS to go public in a San Francisco
newspaper. He was the 16th person in San Francisco to be diagnosed with Kaposi
Sarcoma and would become known as the K.S. Poster Boy.
1987- Rev. Bruce Barton and Ben Williams director of Unconditional
Support met to coordinate holding dances at the RMCC to be co-sponsored by
Unconditional Support, Wasatch Affirmation, and LGSU.
1987- Laura L.
Ferreira contacted the Names Project Utah wanting to do
something for two of her Gay Friends, Michael and Alan , who were lovers and
died of AIDS
1987- “Bruce Harmon told me a piece of news that floored me. After January 1st Backstreet will
close! That makes me sad. I had a lot of
good memories there. What happened was
that Wirth embezzled $100,000 and he told Mac Hunt that if he doesn’t press
charges he wouldn’t turn Mac in for numerous municipal business ordinance
violations. Mac wouldn’t drop the
charges so Wirth went to the different city zoning offices and turned
Backstreet in for back taxes, parking violations, construction permits, etc. so
Backstreet is in such a hole they will have to close according to Bruce Harmon.
(Memoirs of Ben Williams)
1988 SUSPECT SAYS HE WITNESSED IRON SLAYING One of two men charged
with the
Thanksgiving week murder of a Southern Utah State theater arts student
confessed to being a witness to the slaying and led authorities to the body,
according to an affidavit made public Friday. The affidavit by Iron County
Attorney Scott Burns is part of the case record ordered sealed two weeks ago by
Millard County Justice of the Peace Ronald Hare. Information from the affidavit
was published Friday by The Spectrum newspaper. Burns confirmed Friday that the
affidavit, based on an interview with Lance Conway Wood, one of the two
defendants in the case, was used to obtain a search warrant from 5th Circuit
Judge Robert Braithwaite. Wood led Burns and Iron County Sheriff Ira Schoppmann
to a juniper tree in a remote area near Interstate 15 in Millard County West Valley
City Cedar
City convenience store, from where he
drove Wood, 20, and Michael Anthony Archuleta, 26, toward Salt Lake City . Wood and Archuleta are held without bail in
the Millard County Jail on charges of capital homicide, aggravated kidnapping,
aggravated assault and auto theft. A Jan. 24 preliminary hearing has been set.
Paula Sue Jones of Castle Dale, Archuleta's 22-year-old girlfriend and an SUSC
student, was bound over to district court for trial Thursday on charges of
obstructing justice by harboring a suspected felon and delaying his
apprehension by deception. It was Jones' apartment for which Burns obtained the
search warrant Nov. 23. Wood and Archuleta were paroled from the Utah
State-Iron County jail complex in October. They were released in Draper, but
both returned to the Cedar
City Salt
Lake Dog
Valley in Millard County
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| Gordon Church |
1989-Unsolved mysteries: Law enforcers have been frustrated by 73
homicides and 8 disappearances in Utah since 1980. A fear is that killers may
still be walking free. - Editor's note: Because there is no central agency for
unsolved cases in Utah ,
the Deseret News contacted law enforcement officials from each county for these
articles. GETTING AWAY WITH
MURDER Marty James Shook, a 22-year-old hitchhiker,
was killed execution-style seven years ago. A fisherman found Shook's nude body
beside U.S. 40 in Daniels
Canyon Pennsylvania
in 1981. The new information was the first major break in the Shook case and
has detectives looking for the path of a serial killer who may also be
responsible for similar deaths in Wyoming , Connecticut and Georgia . Ridge was lucky. Most homicides that aren't
cleared within a few months remain inactive indefinitely. And until Ridge gets
a suspect, the Shook case will continue to be listed with the other unsolved
homicides and mysterious disappearances of the 1980s. Those cases - 73
homicides and eight mysterious disappearances, to be exact - are part of what
plagues a society looking forward to a new decade. They represent its
unfinished business and inability to keep people safe from violence, said Kay
Gillespie, a Weber State College professor who specializes in criminology.
"Society needs to see an offender apprehended almost immediately or in a
short period of time," Gillespie said. "Unsolved cases bring a lack
of confidence and frustration in the justice system . . . There's always the
fear that the person is still out there." In addition to puzzling
investigators and causing untold grief for the families of the victims, the
cases provide grim reminders that Utah
is no stranger to the macabre. Of the 73 unsolved homicides, 31 involve
shootings, 20 beatings, 17 stabbings and six are strangulations. Four victims
died of unknown causes. Several victims died of a combination of assaults. Four
bodies were found mutilated, two of them sexually. Four victims remain
unidentified. At least four of the
homicides were the work of two serial killers. Thirty-seven of the unsolved
homicides and disappearances involve an unknown motive. According to detectives,
16 are probably sex-related, 10 are drug-related, nine are robbery-motivated,
four were committed during fights and six were the result of domestic disputes.
(ADDITIONAL INFORMATION) 34 cases outside of S.L. County continue to perplex
Utah authorities Emery County James Pickering, 23, was last seen in
Albuquerque, N.M., on Sept. 16; found Nov. 11, 1986, beside I-70 one mile west
of the Hanksville interchange; suffered blunt trauma to the head; dead about
two months. Grand County A "John Doe" victim, was found Feb. 12,
1983, in Arches National Park; shot once in the back of the head with a
.22-caliber gun; shoes were missing; dead about 6 months. Kane County Randy
Woodard, 25, who had been living in Emery County, was reported missing in
December 1982; his partially charred body was found March 18, 1983, in his
pickup truck, which had been rolled into Clear Creek Canyon near the Escalante
River and set afire with gasoline; cause of death undetermined but ruled a
probable homicide; firm motive never established. Tooele County John Dennis
Novak, 36, was found on the Bonneville Salt Flats on Christmas Day, 1980; shot
in the head; arms had been folded; had been living in Salt Lake City , working security for Trolley Square .
Gary L. Stein, 30, was found stabbed to death Jan. 5, 1982, inside the camper of
his pickup truck, which was impounded a day earlier from the side of I-80 45
miles east of Wendover; had left Henderson, Nev., Dec. 28 to work the oil
fields of Wyoming; probably picked up a hitchhiker, who robbed him; wallet
found in Summit County a few days Wasatch County Marty James Shook, 22,
hitchhiked out of Sparks, Nev., on June 12, 1982; his nude body was found
beside U.S. 40 in Daniel's Canyon two days later; shot in the back of head and
his genitals were removed; the slaying has recently been linked to a similar
one in Pennsylvania and may be related to several in other states. Joseph W.
Sheets, 28, a gold seeker, was found shot to death execution-style three miles
from the summit of Daniels Canyon on Sept. 16, 1987; his car, a green 1975 Ford
LTD, Utah
license plate RCK-487, has not been found. Weber County Bryan Picker, 22, a
Weber County Jailer was shot once in the head on Feb. 9, 1980, while in his
vehicle on an Ogden road. Gabriel Distefano, 14, was reported missing by her
mother on Aug. 25, 1982; body, wrapped in plastic, was found Sept. 16 in a
ditch near a construction site in Harrisville; shot once in the head. ****
Puzzling crimes in S.L.
County 155 Canyon Road , on
June 29; had been dead three days; death believed to be over a domestic
dispute. Jerry Hansen, 25, was found Dec. 15 in house at 2029 Richards St. ; had been shot in the
head; possibly drug-related. 1982 Trent Olsen, 22, was stabbed to death in Cottonwood Park 2049 E. Atkin Ave.
(2810 South); drug equipment, bales of marijuana and a piranha found inside.. Jose
Gaitan, 35, was shot during fight in bar at 826 S. Main; Dean Steiner, 68, was
beaten to death in a house at 733 E. 800 South, on Dec. 21; robbery may have
been motive. 1987 Billy Lee Buss, 40, was shot outside a friend's house, 948 W.
300 South, on July 15; probably drug related. 1988 Robert Roy Rowland, 47, was found nude in his
apartment, 1263 E. South Temple, on April 18; had been shot in the head; police
found drug paraphernalia and a small amount of cocaine. Douglas Lee, 36, a
transient, was shot to death June 15 near the railroad tracks, 450 S. 650 West.
Kirk Pitcher, 34, was found dead in a home, 4212 S. 1300 West, on Sept. 11;
massive gunshot wound to head, but no weapon or bullet recovered; no motive.
1989 Vincent A. Thomas, 28, was shot to death Feb. 8 near the intersection of Pueblo Street (1440
West) and 900 South; police believe drugs were involved. David P. Uckerman, 36,
was shot in his home, 337 S. Post
St. (940 West), on Feb. 20. Randall Louis Fitch,
30, a transient, was found floating in Jordan River between North Temple and South Temple on March 14; died of head wounds.
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| Marty Shook |
1992-
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| Douglas Kinney Frost |
1995- The Salt Lake Men's Choir held their annual Christmas Concert
at the Wasatch Presbyterian Church
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1999 "Somewhere Over The Rainbow", annual Diversity Ball at Salt Lake Community College, in the South Cafeteria
at the South City Campus, 1575 S State St in Salt Lake
10 December 2000 So, that's this Sunday,
December 10 at All Saints Episcopal Church (1700 So Foothill) two performances:
2:00 pm and 7:00 pm. ALSO: SLMC needs your help. For the first time ever, The
Salt Lake Men's Choir is taking their Holiday
show on the road. We will be performing this concert in both Ogden
and Provo
2000 The Salt Lake Men's Choir’s 18th Annual Holiday concert is
entitled "Joy! Joy! Joy!" It includes traditional music, as well as
songs from a Holiday CD entitled "Ring Out Wild Bells" (which is
available in lots of music and bookstores), but we are excited to have some
premier performances: "Betlehemu," a Nigerian carol accompanied by
live drumming, and Daniel Pinkham's Christmas Cantata, accompanied by organ and
brass quartet. And you'll never forget the singing AND dancing on "Merry,
Merry Christmas, Baby" December 10 at All Saints Episcopal Church (1700 So
Foothill) two performances: 2:00 pm and 7:00 pm. Other performances are in OGDEN : December 16, 7:00 pm at First
United Methodist
Church (2604 Jefferson Ave ) and in PROVO : December 17, 7:00 pm at the Provo Tabernacle (100
So University Ave) Thanks so much for your support, and may you and yours have
the best Holiday ever! Jonathan Stowers
President Salt
Lake
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| Paula Poundstone |
2005 Posted by Ben Williams Gay Utah Forum Subject Community Gay Agenda-I
wonder too what is the agenda for the Gay community of Utah and who is setting
it? I know high priority causes like Gay marriage and the perennial Hate Crime
Bill always seem to be in the forefront but are they really issues that we in Utah can accomplish? I've
always said and still do believe that only federal intervention will move Utah . Instead of
scrapping with Utah Mormons, who control the state government, we are better
off supporting national trends and local trends. We can often get better
results on the municipal and county level here in Utah than we ever can with the LDS turkey
farmers who run state government. I personally think its time to abandon the
Hate Crime Bill altogether rather than have a tepid do nothing but feel good
law. Give it up. They have won. Sexual orientation is anathema to these people.
Substitute the word Sodomites and you now know how they feel about us. Until a
precedent is set that the common faith clause of the constitution that legal
marriage in one state is actually binding in another by the Supreme Court Utah
will never recognize marriage between same sex individuals. So let’s get over
that one also. Let’s work on what is doable. Domestic union legislation,
medical visitation and decision rights, building stronger business connections
with companies that do not discriminate, and support community building
organizations. I often wonder is Utah 's
agenda being driven by Human Rights Coalition and other east or west coast Gay lobby groups.
Should we not be setting our own agenda? Should we not be prioritizing locally?
I, like Chad ,
have not heard a clear political and social agenda from the new power brokers
in the community, Equality Utah and GLBTCCU. I have never seen a poll sent out
to the community asking what the average queer thinks! I know that those who
can afford $100 plate fundraisers get their voices heard but aren't they a
fraction of the community? When deciding where the Utah Stonewall community
Center should be located a poll was given at a pride day celebration and the
majority of the respondents said it should be east of State Street. So the
first Utah Stonewall Center
- Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:41 pm posted by
Chad Keller Re: [gay_forum_utah]
Response to Setting Agenda Well said Ben! While I would agree that we need to survey, and be more representative of our community in our organizations that are a direct representative of our community (the Center) we must be careful not to hinder the anonymity of organizations like Equality Utah to help build in the areas outside of our community. I have always said that surveys are only as good as the people asking them. Take for example Dr Kommen from the Alcohol Policy Commission, and his recent survey regarding.jpg)
Chad Keller - 2005 9:51 am Posted by Deb Rosenberg
Re: [gay_forum_utah] Response to Setting Agenda Friends and Strangers,
I am a past Chair of Pride, you know. Maybe you don't know. But, I don't
think it should be a for-profit event. I think it should be run by the
blood, sweat and tears of dedicated volunteers, mostly under 30 yrs of
age. I think the older, experienced people in our community ought to be
available to consult and help guide the committee. I think there needs to
be heavy accountability. I am proud of the job done by me, Carla, Kevin,
Marlin, Angela, Chuck, David, Bobby, and several others who worked
together for Pride '91, and talked every day for 10 months to make it
happen, and to bring it from a couple thousand dollars in the red to
several thousand dollars in the
black. No small undertaking, yet we voluntarily accepted the responsibility. Who says we are "too big" for that level of dedication and commitment to our WHOLE community?! <grrr> We certainly do not need scandal, selfishness, ego bullshit, and high salaries. If compensated, it should be based on a percentage stipend of what goes back into the Pride Event budget. That is my opinion. Deb Rosenberg
Deb Rosenberg - Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:16 pm posted by
- Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:31 pm posted by posted by David Nelson
Re: Response to
Setting Agenda " I wonder.... During the last several years, my opinion about ownership of collective activities has changed again. I believed once that those activities that affect "us" should be governed by some variation of elected individuals. Businesses operate this way because it's efficient and everyone knows where the bucks stop. Stakeholders such as owners, donors, members or constituents (not customers) are the obvious choices to elect their own leaders. That has been the model for most of our groups because of the perceived proximity it has to a democracy, or at least a republic. The model has served us well, but has more than occasionally been used by some who, however legally, circumvent the stakeholders or pander to their own stakeholders in hopes of currying their favor and remaining elected. I've been guilty of doing exactly that for expediency of altruistic goals as well as of simplicity. Consensus is painfully detrimental most of the time, for example. Appreciating the need for this kind of expediency, I've returned to the idea that those activities that affect "some of us" need not, and probably should not, be governed by any more than the minimum number of unelected individuals much like sole proprietors. Certain businesses operate this way for exactly the same reasons: It's efficient and everyone knows where the bucks stop. Since more and more of our activities enjoy no or few stakeholders (mostly customers), there's no practical reason to have (or expect) them to elect anyone. That has been the model for most of our businesses because of its efficiency and the substantial difference between stakeholders and the general public. This model could serve more of these un-business, un-group activities well when the stakeholder(s) need only please their customers; a steep order considering the free-market ability of some upstart competition. I operate Stonewall Shooting Sports of Utah exactly this way. It's a business I own. No officers, just me and the members. It earns no assets, pays no taxes and needs no protection except for intellectual-property rights. Its members, myself included, want a way to share ideas and information about our sport, and meet sometimes for practice. If I govern it in a way the members don't like, guess who's the first time find out. I suspect many of our groups are already enjoying the simplicity and direct-management style this model affords. So, with THAT law lesson over, I believe that those activities That affect "us," namely the center and its pride division, COULD govern themselves at the pleasure of their donors and at the risk of damaging their credibility with volunteers, members and the public (with its narrow operating margin, that would be a very possible risk), or point to their thousands of paying customers and gamble against the free-market chance of an upstart competitor. As long as their margin stays black (which it rarely has), they have nothing to worry about. Who's the customer and who's the donor? It's a fine line. David Nelson Salt Lake City.jpg)
David Nelson
.jpg)
.jpg)
2005 Posted by Chad Keller Gay Agenda Recently I have had six people
approach me after being rejected to assist with Utah GAY Pride 2006. I was not
surprised due to the new political ownership dynamic. Based on first person
account that I am getting this in becoming a disturbing norm. Per my records
this has been the situation since the midnight sale of Pride Day a couple of
year ago. I asked several weeks ago regarding the selection process for the
PAID Executive director position, where it was posted, when it was post, and
for how long the job was opened to the community to apply, the minimum
requirements, and how the selection processes would proceed once the position
closed. I am now question the process (so send word to them as they do not
respond regarding the positions Paid and Volunteer.) I have not received any
response either from emails, calls, or posts. Here is how I and many understand
it as detailed at the time of the power grab. The biggest reasons touted that
this Community event needed to go to be given/sold/hijacked to the Center was
1) The executive directors needed greater fiduciary accountability to the
community, this would be accomplished though their direct accounting to a board
of directors (which would be the center board) 2) the committee needed
accountability without also being its own board. Again accomplished through the
Center Board. 3) It would remain a community controlled event, not intended as
a fundraiser for the Center. Its funding would be its own, just oversaw by the
Center Board, to protect it and see that is funding is spent and saved wisely.
4) As still a community event everyone willing to participate in the planning
would remain welcome, and could sit on the committee in whatever position they
chose out of available positions. 3) It had grown to large and too important to
leave to the inexperienced. 4) The Pride Committee and ED would remain
independent; Center Board would not take on the committee responsibilities
because of its oversight role. These were all necessary to recoup losses, get
it back on track, improve the quality of the event, insure profitability, ect.
Have we been sold a bill of goods? I would say YES WE HAVE. In looking at the
Center website, it clearly details that the PAID executive director is a member
of the Center's Board. Conflict of Interest aside, this is not what was
promised to the community. The Center Treasurer is a major vendor for the event
who I’m sure is receiving a sizable commission off of the rentals. Conflict of
Interest aside, where is the regular bid processes that were part of the annual
planning of the event. Graphic Designer....part of the Board....(is this
position paid too?) Is this a paid board or semi paid board, exactly what....?
Previous years since the questionable sale show numerous Center Board Members
in Committee roles. Many of those same people came down the hardest on a Co
Chair who should have been compensated but did not go through the proper
procedures. We basically switched from one board with limited accountability to
another board that in my opinion refuses to be accountable to the community.
The history of Pride Day has been twisted on numerous occasions since the sale
for the benefit of the organizations new ownership. Where are the bylaw changes
and other promises that were made. Where are the processes to insure that the
event is being handled correctly in not the Centers best interest but the
communities? Where is the openness Further, If we are to have a paid position,
what are the qualifications that we/they are looking for. It would seem that
since the sale, people with limited to no experience in major event planning or
working in the Utah GLBT Community, and with Salt Lake City have been selected more in a
"White House Croniesque" fashion. Where are the postings for the
chairs, what is being done to properly fund the event, (gate receipts just wont
cover it, and it was never intended to be ARTS FESTIVAL II With the Gate
receipts we from last year Madonna had better be shaking her grove thing live!)
As with anything, In my opinion, it gets covered over in an attempt by the
center board to remain in power and not be accountable to the entire community
that they are to be in service too. This is what I speak of when I ask who is
setting our collective Utah Community Agenda. Are we governing our own
community as we would hope to be governed and included in real life or are we
allowing small pockets of self appointed inept power brokers to inappropriately
take charge of all that is our community for extended periods of time cause
further chaos and decay as with the right wing on the Federal level? There are
great fundamental flaws in my eyes in the concept of a community center without
real and regular community input. Because of the lack of proper structure
suitable to the nature of a community center, we will always have a Center in
crisis. Please understand that I fully support the concept of a community
center, and I believe that we should have a community center. It can be most of
what we want for 95% of the community. We do not have a real community center,
but a shell of a structure that because of power-playing, and not focusing on
the GLBT and only GLBT community has become broken, and not useable. We can and
should come together to fix the flaws in the name of unity, and create a
structure where all are represented equally with voices that are heard when we
work on out where there is no representation of a real GLBT Community. I
challenge the members of the current center board to meet with me and others
directly to address fundamentals and ethics before it is too late, and we are
forced yet again to close a facility permanently. Chad Keller
- Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:42 pm posted by Melissa Larson RE: [gay_forum_utah] The Gay Agenda Just in case you were wondering, I have answered the age old question regarding THE Gay Agenda. THE Gay Agenda is actually written by straight, fundamentalist, right wing, white, men. How do I know you ask? Well the queers of the world wouldn't choose these topics of conversation to battle. We would choose non-discrimination policies and equality in the workplace because those are the issues that the country is with us on. NOT marriage...who wants to get married anyway? Marriage is way overrated. Soooo, this means that if anyone brings up THE Gay Agenda you now can answer to them: "Holy crapola, that old thing? It is actually written by fundamentalist, straight, right wing, white men. It doesn't mean shit to those homosexuals who are beautifying neighborhoods and putting your children through school. That old thing means nothing. Now, let's move on shall we?"
- Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:38 pm posted by Michael Aaron RE: [gay_forum_utah] The Gay Agenda No. The Gay Agenda is Salt Lake Metro's calendar section.
- Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:27 pm posted by Chad Keller Re: [gay_forum_utah] The Gay Agenda missed the point. it was our community agenda we were talking about. While they may have written it for years, should we not be controlling our own destiny locally by setting some goals that we call can collectively work on?
- Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:07 am posted by Ben
Williams Re: [gay_forum_utah] The Gay Agenda I personally think Larsen makes a
great point. Sometimes I think our so called leaders make knee jerk
reactions to the radical religious right's agenda. We were ecstatic when
- Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:10 pm posted by Melissa Larsen Re: The Gay Agenda You make a good point Michael and while I do not put together the calendar section of the Metro, I do feel like that calendar is made up for the whole community to use or discard. I can use that calendar to set my weekend plans or not. I can choose to use the services that you provide or not. I can choose to set my own agenda and pave my own way in life or not.
- Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:09 pm posted by Chad Keller Re: [gay_forum_utah] Re: The Gay Agenda and thus we continue to appear disorganized and never moving in at least the same direction. We need a Carl Rove.....
- Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:16 pm posted by Chad Keller Re: The Gay Agenda So Melissa, do you believe that our rights come by chance? Is it okay then for the members of our community to say, "I don’t really believe in that....It’s not my path or choice, so I don’t care." It kinda sounds to me like you want right for some in our community and not for others. Would that be a correct assessment on your view of our community work collectively together to attain the equality we all deserve and want. And on the Carl Rove Comment....just meant we needed someone to rally us and get all of us wandering and selecting what rights each of us wanted in the same direction, rather than scattered all over with no clear plan. Melissa did you grow up as a hippy flower child? Just wondering
- Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:02 am posted by Jere Keys Re: The Gay Agenda So... it's agreed that we need some community-wide plan, but you seem to have issues with either Equality Utah or The Center working to set that agenda. We need someone to rally the community together (i.e. Karl Rove), but you constantly vent about secretive, clique-ish boards (which are neither secretive nor clique-ish in my experience... ) or salaried professional activists who claim to speak on behalf of the larger community. A longer word on that... while it's true that many boards don't volunteer information as much as they maybe ought to, in my short time in Utah, I’ve yet to encounter anyone who flat-out refused to explain where they were coming from, the purpose behind their actions, or their plans and goals... if asked professionally and courteously. Currently, there are many organizations, including The Center, Equality Utah and many others, which are trying to revive a Community Council style group - the Utah GLBT Leadership Task Force – and efforts thus far have been focused on building inter-organizational alliances and communication. It's been slow going, but it is happening. So basically, you don't have an objection to the type of work being done, you just don't personally like the people doing it? Jere p.s. Some of my favorite people are hippy flower children.
- Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:24 am posted by Jere Keys Re: The Gay Agenda This is an old argument. Are we disorganized, or are we inherently prone to problems because we (as a community) tend to value individual rights and opinions more highly than winning at all costs? If the queer community had an authoritarian task-master, I don't doubt we'd make more progress politically, but I personally think we'd also be losing a lot of what makes us unique. We ought to find better solutions to our political woes than duplicating the strategies of our adversaries.
- Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:01 pm Posted by
David Nelson Re: The Gay Agenda
"Jere Keys" wrote: The Center, Equality Utah and many others
[...] are trying to revive a Community Council style group -- the Utah
GLBT Leadership Task Force -- and efforts
thus far have been focused on building inter-organizational alliances and communication. It's been slow going, but it is happening. That's odd. I was twice refused to subscribe to the UtahGLBTLeadershipTaskForce Yahoo Inc. group. Others I know have also been refused subscription to it. For a group that "is open to all people who are in positions of leadership within the various organizations [that] actively deal with gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender issues," why is its leadership so quick to reject some of us? The explanation that I received was that I couldn't subscribe because I don't represent any of the groups that are already task-force members; implying that if you aren’t already a member, don't bother trying to become one. Of course, my question is rhetorical. It's not the first time I've been ignored and-or expelled from an enlightened bunch. It does, however, beg the question: With proof of such exclusive behavior, do you or the task force really want to continue claiming it's "efforts thus far have been focused on building inter-organizational alliances and communication?!?" The task-force leadership seems to be trying to have it both ways. Either "all people" can join or the task force picks and chooses its members who presumably agree with those doing the picking. Which is it? As one of the Gay and Lesbian Community Council Inc. founders, I'm especially offended that a group which excludes anyone who supports it would dare compare itself to the council..jpg)
Jere Keys - Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:42 am posted by
Mark Swonson Re: [gay_forum_utah] Re: The Gay Agenda Who can belong to
Utah GLBT Leadership Task Force? I know the next meeting is January 5th at
6:30pm at The Gay and
- Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:16 pm Posted by Jere Keys Re: The Gay Agenda Joining the Task Force is more than joining the yahoogroup and I was asked not to approve memberships of people who wouldn't or couldn't commit to coming to at least a few of our regular meetings (first Thursday of every month at The Center - open to anyone and everyone who would like to attend). It was felt that actual face-to-face dialogue was the goal, not another e-forum.
- Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:54 pm Posted by
Mike Picardi Re: [gay_forum_utah] Re: The
Gay Agenda Hey, as the owner of Queer Events, I believe you have a position at the table. And FYI, it is called the GLBT Community Committee. Mike.jpg)
Michael Picardi - Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:54 pm Posted by Chad Keller Re: The Gay Agenda When waging war, one looks at how the enemy will wage their battle. Then counter it. The fact is Jere,...we have no collective strategy. Just organizations serving their own agenda at the expense of other groups and the whole agenda. Lets be real, the fact is the far right are very organized in their attacks on our community, Yet collectively we are not. A community leadership forum was attempted, yet at the time members of the Center board, and Pride Day launched and all out attack on it, and rendered it useless due to threats and negative comments rather than participate. Jere, considering your short history with the Utah GLBT community I would hope that you would be careful not to decide what is or isn’t worth time for our community to address without a clear history of what has been attempted, what was tried and true, and the issues that surround the history. Involve those who were there and made it happen, they have a lot of insight to how to make something happen in this unique community and state. Nothing is an old argument, especially if it an ongoing problem. I am also shock regarding the statement of what makes us unique. One would think from the looks of it that it is the current leadership that is white washing the color from the glbt community.
- Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:16 pm Posted by Chad Keller Re: The Gay Agenda One can only ask so long with an air of professionalism or common courtesy. The Center and Equality Utah are in my opinion the worst two leading the pack. Sorry, one would hope to that we could find someone with less of a financial stake in it, so that everyone is equal and that all organizations get their fair share of the limited dollars out there. Funny how it was the Center who lead the charge to destroy what I and others had going to only then shall we say for courtesy sake, "repackage it" with the center in charge with their seal of approval. We need a King Solomon type figure, who will allow all to participate, who will allow all organizations to succeed, who will remind organization of their commitment to our community, and not just to there pocket books, and most of all help build uncommon alliances. What I have the biggest problem with is that the one organization who was most opposed to it is not the one trying to do it. I would ask, what is in it for the community to have these two organizations who have limited boards, and a very limited board selection process not only put this together but lead it. It would be by experience that we all realize that we might be setting ourselves up to get burned.
- Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:21 pm Posted by Chad Keller Re: The Gay Agenda Perfectly said David. I’ll go find the group and join now. Who will bet me that I too am rejected....Rejected....We have been rejected many places, but we should not be rejected within our own community. For some reason we just keep "cliquing" away till there will be no one left who cares or is willing to help. CK
- Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:26 pm Posted by
Jere Keys Re: The Gay Agenda Chad, I feel like you keep making
accusations about the Center board having sinister intent and, quite
frankly, it make me hostile and combative to everything you have to say.
The fact of the matter is, I have personally tried to reach out and listen
to as many community opinions as I can in my past role as editor of Metro,
my role as a board member for The Center, and my role as a Pride committee
member. Listening to opinions, though, and mindlessly following every
piece of advice I get are two different things. Your own experience as a
community leader should tell you that sometimes you must make decisions
which may not be popular or may be ignoring the advice of a few vocal
people. But I have never been in a situation where one of those decisions
was made without a lot of careful thought, deliberation and (sometimes)
tears. The Center, the staff and the board have made numerous attempts to
get feedback from the community--Town Hall meetings, coalition building
initiatives, private relationships, one-on-one meetings with various
organizational representatives, etc. Maybe we're not perfect about it,
maybe we don't spend as much time as we could researching public opinion,
but a very sincere effort is made. We are only human, and volunteers with
too much on our collective plates. For example, the question of whether or
not to charge admission to Pride was discussed for MONTHS. We sought
public opinion in an open town hall meeting, we debated it internally at
great length, and we looked at dozens of other options to keep Pride from
running in the red yet again. In the end, we made a decision and we
accepted the consequences of a few people being very upset. Yes, yes, I
often get poked at for my "short history" with
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- Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:30 pm Posted by Jere Keys Re: The Gay Agenda The Utah GLBT Leadership Task Force is open to anyone. We already have members who are not officially affiliated with any particular group. Right or wrong, my instructions about the yahoogroup remain the same, memberships are approved only after someone has made a commitment to the work of the Task Force by attending meetings. The yahoogroup is meant to be a tool of the Task Force, not the task force itself. If this continues to be an issue, I may recommend deleting the whole darned thing and coming up with another option for easy e-mail list management.
- Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:26 pm Posted by Chad Keller Re: The Gay Agenda So who is directly responsible for this little tea party
2005 Gay Forum Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:37 pm Posted by Chad LDS
Church Salt
Lake Utah
County
- Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:43 pm Jere Keys Re: The Gay Agenda Wow, the assumptions you continue to make simply boggle the mind. Caviar and $1000 bills? While it's true that some of people involved in EU and The Center are well off financially, the very notion of caviar and thousand dollar bills would make many of us green with jealousy. I can't afford $100-a-plate dinners any more than I can afford to buy a new car, which is why I've been riding the bus whenever I can't borrow my father's beaten-up old truck. Ambiguous phrases are great, aren't they? "Overly rosy" - well, that amounts to one man's opinions of where the line is drawn. If I ever thought there was a possible conflict of interest, either I turned the story over to an impartial writer, or (if time was of the essence) vetted it heavily through Michael. "Our community center has problems, which we all realize now just how many it does" Oh, and what would those be, exactly? No more vague comments about "power grabs" or "secretive board," I want specific examples from the past year. What are those problems and what would you do to solve them? Your big complaint seems to be not so much that we aren't listening to people, but that we aren't listening to YOU. I said before and I'll say it again, we make a genuine and sincere effort to listen to as many people as is humanly possible, reflect on all opinions and ideas, and make decisions that we feel are for the best. Did it ever occur to you that the reason people didn't jump all over your ideas was because in the final analysis, no one thought the ideas themselves were all that good? It might have nothing to do with people's personal feelings about you, but rather a thought-out rejection of your proposals. I've reviewed the Utah Revised Statues (Title 16, Corporations, Chapter 6a. Utah Revised Nonprofit Corporation Act, Part 16. Records, Information, and Reports) and find no law stating that financial records must be turned over to you. The Center was not established as a membership organization (weren't you involved in the initial establishment of The Center?), so as far as I can tell, the demand to see financial records can only be invoked by directors, members (which we don't have according to our bylaws), or the courts. Despite that fact, Valerie and the current BOD have been very forthcoming with requests for information about our finances, but the salary question tends to be lumped into one line item to protect the privacy of our individual employees. Last year's advertising budget for Pride was not outrageous. Aside from the billboards and busboards, we spent very little on advertising (most of it was donated in exchange for sponsorship status). The outdoor advertising was paid for entirely by private donors who approached US about funding that project. If that money had been donated without strings attached, I think it could and would have been put to a different purpose. What would you have had us do, reject an offer to pay for some advertising we couldn't afford on our own? Oh, the comment about the ladder--nice. I suppose you've never made a mistake? Look, I've taken full responsibility for many of the mistakes that were made last year, and have been making an effort to correct them for next year. I've never been too proud to admit my mistakes. You know, when I first spoke with Evelyn about joining the Board in November of 2004, one of the topics we discussed was how to make the activities and the decisions of the board more transparent. In the year I've been involved, we've tried dozens of ways to overcome this perception that we're "cloistered" or "secretive." But here's the bottom line - if you really want to know what goes on, come to one of our Board meetings (fourth Monday of every month, 6pm - note: December's meeting was rescheduled because of the holiday, we'll meet again in January)! They're all open to the public with the rare and unusual exception of those times when we have to discuss sensitive personnel information (which is allowed by both our bylaws and Utah law). Otherwise, there's nothing we can do that isn't open to public witness, debate and comment. I don't know how we could be less "cloistered" or "secretive" at this point. We do our best to post notice of all our activities as early as possible. Save the date notices for our town hall meetings and other major community-input style events are often emailed and posted at least a month in advance. How much more time does a person need? Yes, sometimes there are events or meetings which only get announced a few days before, but we're only human and cannot control every circumstance about when and how information becomes available. For the record, I have great respect for "my elders," especially when they treat me with mutual respect. I have had a few much cherished, lengthy conversations with Ben Williams about the history of this community. I deeply respect and count as friends individuals such as Luci Malin, Sherry Booth, Michael Aaron, and Marlin Criddle. I even admire (but too frequently disagree with) a few folks like David Nelson. Finally, wow did you ever misinterpret my "prissy" final paragraph. I spent many years sitting in bars tossing them back with people while listening to them tell me why everything I did was wrong. That I choose not to spend my time nor money in bars since moving to Utah is a matter of personal comfort and respect for my parents (who, as I mentioned before, often loan me the use of their vehicles--a favor I'd hate to repay by drinking before driving). On the occasions when I have enjoyed a frosty glass at Try-Angles, or whichever watering hole my friends and I decide to visit, I'm more than happy to hear and reflect on the opinions of my fellow patrons--sometimes with a focus and intensity that bores my friends who are more interested in having a good time than solving all the problems of the community over a pint. But I've also learned that there's no pleasing some people, which is why I'm wondering why I'm even going to hit the send button on this e-mail. What's that saying... "the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again expecting different results."
- Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:02 am posted by David Nelson The Gay Agenda "Jere Keys" wrote: “I've taken full responsibility for many of the [Pride] mistakes that were made last year, and have been making an effort to correct them for next year. I've never been too proud to admit my mistakes.” I look forward, then, to learn that the written Pride policies and rules won't include the unconstitutional, illegal and misguided ban of legally concealed firearms. The resolution last year of this matter happened apparently too late to be reflected in the written policies and rules. Please tell me when this correction is finalized. David Nelson Salt Lake City
- Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:23 am Posted by Jere Keys Re: The Gay Agenda David, You know that you and I disagree strongly on the issue of gun control and interpretation of the second amendment. That said, would you be satisfied if the wording were changed to say that ILLEGAL weapons of any kind are not permitted? It will also be several months before we finalize the policies and rules. Our insurance carrier has a great deal of impact on the official language of this document.
- Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:24 pm posted by Chad Keller Re: The Gay Agenda--final response Getting a little bitchy there aren’t we there young one. First Jere, you need to stop referring to Equality Utah, They aren’t part of the discussion. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THEM! The opening statement was directed to your little power broker cronies that seem to want to bankroll and control everything, in their effort to dispose of what parts of the community and people(s) that they don’t like. Jere, If the Center was experiencing financial problems, or any problem it would have been a real article had you asked some questions as to the details and nature of the problem, what the plan was to get the community involved to yet again save the Center. However you continued to print recaps of meetings then never went back to address the issues in follow up stories. Exactly where did you get training as an editor? Or were you just a proof reader with a title at Metro and other publications. You fed us propaganda. You should NEVER as editor assigned yourself to any thing pertaining to the Center as you were on the board at that time. THIS IS A BREIF LESSON IN ETHICS YOUNG ONE!!! TAKE HEED! I question if you are an true editor. Education regarding this? What our community needs, and really demands if full detailed disclosure, and transparency. THE CENTER IN MY EYES DOES NOT HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO DO EITHER FOR ITS OWN SURVIVAL. IT NEEDS A SERIOUS CHANGE IN STRUCTURE, AND ACCOUNTABLITLITY. Let alone a board where every seat MUST raise independently a set minimum of 30,000....I would start with creating trustees, and then an new board. Your findings regarding your salaries are incorrect, I got my information direct from the Attorney Generals office about the ability to publicly ask. AFTER ALL, YOUR COMMUNITY IS YOUR SHAREHOLDER, and many of your shareholders are concerned. Do not force me to prove a point and us waste money with lawyers. Cause I am not above getting one to make some things happen and prove some points. Seems to me and many that there are again financial problems at the Center, or a lack of people wanting to do the work (Yes in my eyes that would mean taking a Barista Shift) to have the best tool to winning people in our favor, and building long last partnerships. The Coffee shop was a PR tool, and could have been used as a write off. Pride Day has continued to lose Money, but oh no Jere, it would be a sin for you to discuss it with anyone outside of the Caviar Club. We need to be having open meetings to recruit and enroll the community in creating a great community center. GOD forbid if one of us came to you with ways to bank roll it that was not part of your select group of people who approved to comment or help! As for the power grab....HMMMM community calendars in the process of being launched, the Center rushed right in derailing something truly useful, A Business Guild that they through a hissy fit over, the purchase of Pride day complete with the removal of real honest public comment, a Task Force that has limited membership, and numerous other items that seem to be suggested in the community then the Center swooping in and grabbing it, then screwing it up so no one can use the projects or tools available to our community. Seems others were working on a Gay Ski weekend, now they dumped it in frustration, because the center couldn’t enroll the community in creating one collectively. Or was as like always the Center saw the bucks these guys would bring in and said, will show them, and took it. I don’t think the best public relations effort could help the Center at this point, which I wonder why it does not have a committee for this. Maybe you like the half effort, I don’t know and am tired of trying to figure it out. Couple all this with, "when it is convenient to tell the community we will," and "we account to no one," with paying everybody and their dog, from a limited selection of people who are our friends because we don’t want to post any position for fear of the real problems that are being so talentedly hid, and I am more than F*cking amazed that we even have a Center. You scream for people to volunteer, but why should any of us, we seem to be paying what the Board of the Center are the most talented and brightest of our community. While I have always been one to give people a chance I fear this time, I may need to take the offer from several in Las Vegas and Reno to provide to us insight into your what I feel is now a very questionable background. Jere, I am no longer interested in generously just solving problems by me providing to you any idea or solution. (it would seem though you have all the answers anyway by your attitudes expressed in this and other email in my possession.) I have done that with the center and this community enough, then as you and members of the caviar club so often do to me and others, slaughter us as quick as possible, take the solution, then screw us over. Want help, send a letter from your board president, I will gladly participate on any committee, and in a manner. You never answered the Question, just who will fill the empty board seat. Post it separately please. We are all dying to know! Will it be a community choice, a crony choice, or a member of the Caviar Club In my eyes we do not have a community center, we have the bricks and mortar, and possibilities, but it lacks the community to make it one. Perhaps you should consider just dropping Community Center and come up with something that more accurately represents what it is. Perhaps Lesbian Group House, or GLBT SERVICE CENTER, and Banquet hall. Change the name to something that reflects the limited perspective and ability to serve the community, and many will rejoice. AND when you do that speak only from a CENTER-WHATEVER-IT- IS Prospective, not the community as a whole. As for ideas, My record stands for itself. And it is full of profit making, fun ideas. ALL OF WHICH HAVE BENEFITED NUMEROUS Organizations GAY and STRAIGHT people and organization. Except in the STRAIGHT WORLD I deal with fewer egos, and genuine requests for assistance and help. Which neither are present here. I am sought out by organizations around Utah, around Salt Lake and around the Nation. Ask Michael who had the idea for a certain paper and some of the things surrounding it. The help I am asked to provided is put to use, and communities to benefit those who I have bestowed my time. AND YOU? I have not made any suggestions recently to which you have a right to be so critical. Nor would any in the past warrant this. Nothing has been offered from me for quite a while, because of things just like this. So to that I will politely tell you, that you are out of line, and if you want an idea please come ask. Again, I would give you every opportunity. Pretty sure you wouldnt at this point. I could be wrong. Seems that you left quite a mess in Las Vegas from what I am able to see in the positive and negative feedback I am getting from your past communities. So don’t ask me to go off your past record, I’m sure we will find many more "ladders". AS for the Ladder, obviously you are not think ideas and suggestions through, or it would have been secured and in not so public of area, or attached to something else. Like the roof of a building. THE LADDER IS A SIMPLE LESSON IN COMMON SENSE! So....that said, do you have enough common sense to put Pride together? Seems we had no other qualifications but to be a returning committee member. Hope that you have other qualifications to make it all come together. Youth isn’t the only answer, true experience is. Sad that all the people willing to help seem to be being run off one by one. Seems that we keep running in the red, and maybe it is because we are paying people many people and far too much money, and not listening to our community, and doing half assed fundraising. Yes I have made mistakes, but never any that jeopardized peoples lives, or their health. I have never jeopardized the health of any organization which I have served. I am cautious to make sure that when I have participated that I deal honestly and fairly with everyone, even though they are less than that to me, keep an eye on the cash, and most of all take lots of vitamin B100 to keep a positive attitude as I listen and steer through the massed input. BTW, THE VICTIM OF YOUR LADDER: how is she doing, seems you missed reporting that in the Pride Day review when you were at Metro! Lastly and this is all I think we should say on this issue. Jere, obviously by the list of people you respect, and a ton you can’t stand. I can see where the disrespect to me comes from. There is a blaring Alpha Lesbian on your list that I and many have tried to be workable with but she has made it her life’s mission to do me and many in. She is in my opinion where all of the problems with Pride and the Center originate, (she and her little buddy M) Wanna read the emails, schedule coffee and Ill bring them, (and its not Luci Malin, love her!) I have been and could be again the Center's greatest friend, supporter, and cheerleader, I was once and could be won back. There are problems, we all know it. Now lets stop the who is right and who is wrong bantering and get to business in getting the community enrolled. But for now, I think I will take the advise of many, (200 emails this morning alone, telling me what a piece of crap I am and just take my talent and energy elsewhere. It is sad that as what I feel is a leader in training, you seem to have problems with a lot of people, and cannot set them aside to work directly with them, and possibly learn something from them. I was your greatest supporter when you arrived, because of what I had hoped you would be able to do for Metro, and the possibilities for people to help you learn, as well as us learn from you. But that would take you having direct contact with people that repulse and disgust you. BTW---WHEN WERE YOU PLANNING TO TELL THE COMMUNITY THAT THE CITY IS FORCEING PRIDE TO CHANGE THE DAY? WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW SINCE WE ALL HAVE TO PLAN OUR EVENTS??? OH THATS RIGHT THE ONLY COMMUNITY THAT EXISTS IS THE ONE IN YOUR LITTLE NARROW WORLD. AND I WOULDN’T STICK TO THE PLAN TO NOT WRISTBAND...We Don’t want underage drinking, and risk future opportunities to have a beer permit CK
- Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:45 pm Chad Keller Re: The Gay Agenda Interesting David
- Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:42 pm posted by Jere Keys Re: The Gay Agenda--final response Well, if that's your final response, let me just add (for the benefit of other people reading this) that many of the things Chad presents as facts or commonly held views are, at best, biased or inaccurate and, at worst, outright propaganda in it's own form. I stand by my record in Las Vegas and Reno, am proud of the work I have accomplished, and I can find ten grateful people for every malcontent that Chad may be able to dig up out of my past. And really, is this forum best served by debating me as a person? I have a think skin and I can take it, but if that is the desire of this group, well, it's a sad day for the state of debate in this community.
- Fri Dec 20, 2005 10:31 am Posted by Chad Keller Gay Agenda Recently going over several old articles, I found a statement by a female pride chair, hijacked from Hillary Clinton's set of famous quotes,....it takes a village. I laughed as the person saying this in the press release, in my opinion, did more to alienate the village than to embrace it. It left me again wondering a lot about what is the new community mentality? While I’m sure in this group, Mr. Nelson will do a lot to hold people to their political word, it would be my hope that I might remind us that while we are a very large community, it is manageable; if people are willing to set aside the 'personal greed/glory' factor and enroll in the “for the betterment of the masses” philosophy. In the 1980’s and 1990's our elected, appointed, and paid leaders gathered at least once a month to help better address the greater over all issues of our community. It was called the Gay and Lesbian Community Council of Utah. From its "community agenda" came the first community centers, the oversight of pride day, and our own community action plan for helping with the first wave of the AIDS epidemic. Yes, it was often too much for a volunteer leader to do, and often bothersome. So, because of, I feel, an unwillingness to maintain it, it fell into ruin and was dismantled, leaving its projects to fend for themselves. Without the GLCCU, organizations were left on their own to carry on former projects with no real input from the community on the bigger issues. For example there was no community input in the closure and dismantling of the Utah Stonewall Community Center on 300 West, nor the midnight-under-darkness sale of Pride Inc. etc. Petty agendas of power brokers began to compete against each other, and in my opinion left the entire community disenfranchised. That’s pretty bad, considering in Utah we as Gays are disenfranchised from the mainstream. In 2000 I owned a struggling business, and in communicating with other business people, we saw the need to establish a Gay Chamber of Commerce, which could help with issues of Gay owed businesses, and the recruitment and promotion of our businesses. We got together and made it happen. With its success, many business leaders stated this was what we needed for the community as a whole. An independent place where we could coordinate, offer assistance, and discuss what our overall agenda was. We attempted to do this, and were successful for several months. The project was then taken over in what I see though a series of emails as a power grab for one organization. I would seem that because of careful nurturing it is not bringing the community together. Now, it is my opinion and belief that perhaps the Business Guild, co-opted by the GLBTCCU, has failed, due to it not being managed in the manner originally envisioned. (I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong, that it is still around.) Many then felt and many now feel that the small boards in this community, who keep selecting from the same small set of elite and exclusive people, are jeopardizing our future, while whitewashing our past. With all that said, would someone clearly state the agenda of the UTAH Gay Community to me in writing. Who is or who are the persons responsible to see that we meet our goals as a community. Chad Keller
- Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:12 pm posted by Chad Keller Re: The Gay Agenda--final response Never said you past was that horrible. But since you were so quick to berate anything that is my Utah Record with only the knowledge and opinion that was feed to you, just thought you needed a little reminder that you are not the end all in answers, and that you too have a problematic past. I have talked to many wonderful people who had many great things to say about you. Is it wrong to wonder about a person when He refused my invitation for coffee? Suspicion is good, especially when people arrive on the scene cloaked in self glory, and no references..... It is unfortunate Jere, that as you do not know me at all that you have gone down roads in this conversation that contradict what you profess, and the person you state you are. I have been told that your judgment of me is based solely on a circumstance that arose between Michael Aaron and myself, which I would add is none of your f*cking business, period. Michael and I have meet, and have/are addressing our own issues. It would benefit you to stay out of it, Should you choose to make any prissy remark or assumption regarding our problem publicly here or anywhere, and I get one grain of crap forwarded to me regarding any of it being passed between you, the Caviar Club, or cronies of your clique, be warned, my lawyer is standing by and would love to have a conversation with you. If you can base an entire judgment off of one person base solely on what you hear from others without meeting them or working with them then you have real problems. And I fear, Pride day and all you are to attempt in our community may be doomed. You are doing exactly what you tell us you aren’t, and that fact can make such a flawed judgment of me, and as I am finding others in our community show that you have aligned yourself with people who are nastier than me every day, not just in our little discussion. Perhaps your skin is not so thick as you are stating, we all care what people think of us. It will be interesting to see the list grow of people you won’t work with as the list you will work with dwindles. From our conversation I have found you are not one to listen well, and is quick to rush to judgment. So you know Jere, I only asked people in both Cities if they thought you were a great guy. I wanted to know they type of person we were putting in charge of some very important things. While the ratio is pretty even, they were honest stating all they loved about you, things they thought you could improve on, and areas where they feel their is no changing you mind, areas that are your own downfalls. I listened, and figured that it was not that important to worry too much about you till now when you have proven your critics were more than accurate. I have not shared these things with anyone. While many stood against you they still said you were a pretty okay person with your heart in the right place. You should be happy that your community would. Mine has never done this, and it is a cold reality. So thanks Salt Lake, you remain true to your reputation. So don’t go off angry, they liked you for all the good and bad, and cared enough to make sure somebody (who at the time cared to make sure you were welcomed, and was trying to fend off a herd of crap being sent to Utah about you....)knew. At this point I don’t, and could care less, as you per many emails this morning show you intended personal harm to me to start with. Sad, the people you are aligned with will soon have no use for you, just like she had done time and time again. (Happy holidays SB) So as you are being nasty to others and listening to the crap, remember that in Utah, no one really cares how great you are or were, and that in the end, they will leave you in the cold to fend for yourself, when the small few have uses you up. I am proof that Utah will not stand up for you, they will share in your victories, often stealing them, and then kick you when your down. At that time, my door will be open to you, and I’ll have Band-Aids and Kleenex waiting. The door was always open, you just drew the wrong conclusions. Jere we all want what is best for the community, sad you seem so unwilling to set rumor and innuendo aside to have discussions, and looked past all that I was saying. In closing Jere answer simply this one question with out all the crap stating only the facts surrounding it. Did you bother as a board member how it would appear to post board positions, with such a limit time to prepare to apply or even give the community a chance to get people interested? While I think the world of Fran, and I see the urgent need to make the changes, again, the Center and the community has come up short handed, in time to show interest or get people interested. With the printing schedule of community papers, and other factors, the standard would have been at least 60 days for the public to respond. But what the heck do I know.....Perhaps the degree on the wall wasn’t worth it. One thing for sure, no matter how well intended, it will someday be thorn in all of our sides. CK ---
- Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:34 pm posted by Ruadhan Quoting Chad Keller <chad_c_keller@yahoo.com>:” I’m not sure quite how to take this. If is because I spoke my mind then Oh well, We trust everything to the center and I think it is wrong. It does not represent the community as a whole, only a portion. And if it is to remind me what a peice of crap I am. well I have gotten the message loud and clear from the Caviar Club that I am 1) stupid, 2) not creative, 3) unoriginal, 4) an embarrassment to the community, and to quote three alpha social working lesbians ....5) "do the world a favor find a gun and kill myself. (I have the gun just cant find the bullets, probably because I am so retarded. Merry Xmas I guess..... CK” Ineffective as email is to convey emotions and body language, please don’t take it as an attack on yourself. I have been teasing you about this or that for years, so don’t lose your sense of humour on me now. All I was trying to say is that there is no consensus on what we as a Lambda community need to do as one group, and that getting the diverse elements that make us all up to work toward that end is like stacking marbles. Works like that for the Pagan community, as well. Ruadhan
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| Mitt Romney |
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| Kim Russo |
2012 Anthonin Scalia conservative Supreme Court justice created a firestorm after a gay student at Princeton University asked about Scalia’s comparisons between anti-sodomy laws and legislation against murder and bestiality. “I don’t think it’s necessary, but I think it’s effective,” said Scalia, adding that legislative bodies are allowed to prohibit what they believe is immoral. Scalia continued, “It’s a form of argument that I thought you would have known, which is called the ‘reduction to the absurd’…If we cannot have moral feelings against homosexuality, can we have it against murder? Can we have it against other things?”
2012 Bear with me folks, this is going to be a long one. Let me begin by expressing my gratitude to Valerie Larabee for reaching out and meeting with me this morning. We had a great chat and I think we each now have a much better understanding of the other and our relative perspectives. I still can't say that I entirely agree with the Utah Pride Center's press release supporting the LDS "mormonsandgays" website, but I understand where she's coming from. I don't think the site represents anything more than a PR stunt from an organization more concerned about declining membership. Valerie believes that this might open a discussion and potentially give an LDS youth a chance to openly discuss their feelings with family without being judged or disowned. If one kid is helped from this, then it's worth it. With that I do agree, although I doubt the site will accomplish this and I think there are more long-term risks associated with the message on the site. Websites and press releases aside, I applaud Valerie for being willing to sit down (especially with a guy like me) to have a rational (not usually in my book of tricks) discussion. We can agree to disagree about some specific issues and strategies, but I do think that her heart is in the right place and we all share a common goal of bringing real equality to our society.-Bob Henline Q Salt Lake Reporter
2015 KSL NEWS SALT LAKE CITY — Mayor-elect Jackie Biskupski spoke with LDS Church leaders for the first time Thursday in a meeting that covered homelessness, air quality and other local issues. Biskupski, who defeated two-term Salt Lake Mayor Ralph Becker last month, met briefly Thursday afternoon with Elder D. Todd Christofferson, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Bishop Gérald Caussé, the faith's presiding bishop. The 15-million-member global church has its headquarters in downtown Salt Lake City, where it has a major footprint, including Temple Square, the Church Office Building, the City Creek Center and numerous meetinghouses. It is routine for church leaders to meet with a newly elected mayor. "We have always enjoyed the working relationship we've had with those who have served as the Mayor of Salt Lake City and found it productive to discuss matters of importance to the city," LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins said. "The discussion was broad and included homelessness, economic development, education, transportation and other items relevant to the city. We are eager to continue our conversations with Mayor Biskupski and wish her well as she begins her service."
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